Srinivasa Shastry view of Valivadh….analysed

Ramayana is book of infinite knowledge. Naturally each person interprets it in his own way, based on their experience and their concepts of Justice and faith. This post reviews the Right Honourable srinivasas sastry’s ( an eminant Personality in preindpendence India…More) concepts of Valivadh as extracted from his lectures on the Ramayana (this book is out of print and may be difficult to get hence I shall quote from it).When I was young I was thrilled by this book but now I find deviations from my perspective. The readers may draw conclusions based on their perception of life and justice.

1. First thing that SS assures his his analysis is based on exclusively from Valmiki Ramayana only and will not take quotes from other scriptures.

11. This is exactly what we want as we are also doing the same

2. Then SS starts apologizing on Rama’s behavior based on the Kshatriya behavior at that time and says may not be valid for the present time and margin has to be given in understanding

2. I do not agree with this, as analysis stands to scrutiny even during modern times. In fact it educative and is store house of information of morals and ethics (Dharma) that needs to be understood and followed. In this case the way Vali was killed is exactly as killing of Bin Laden>and justified by Adarvana veda and mnusmriti. No way is the law out of date.

3. Questions the jurisdiction of Bharata’s empire

3. I feel this is superfluous question and authors (Valmiki’s) perspective has to taken as is.

4. The reason given by Rama at the first chance when Sugriva fights is not satisfactory

4. The blogger has no answer but would go by what Valmiki has written Why doubt it?

5. SS thinks that Rama was hiding during killing of Vali. Quoted 4-12-14

5. This blogger thinks the word used is stealth (Like any hunter). Because hiding means fear. Rama was not afraid of Vali but had the duty of killing him which he does not want to botch up. Same as killing of Bin Laden.

6. SS (assumes) says Vali accused Rama of hiding when shooting arrow and Rama makes no answer to it. Rama admits and defends his action.

6. This is patently wrong. Vali asks why he was attacked when he was facing away from Rama. Vali never accuses Rama of hiding. Rama in fact says though you did not ask I shall reply. This proves Vali never asked.

7. SS quotes from Yudha kanda where Hanuman refuses to attack seeing Ravana is fighting with Jambhavan and accuses Rama of undignified behavior

7. Why go so far just a few slokas before in Kishkinda kanda itself Dhundhubhi says killing an unarmed and unaware person is like killing a fetus.There is no undignified behaviour involved. Rama is killing a criminal ( aatataaye) and is not going to give him the respect of fight.

8.SS quotes from Govindacharya:”Vali was killed by Rama although by a fraud just because he had made promise to Sugriva”

8. This is definitely wrong. I have respect for both Valmiki’s hero Rama and Shastry and also Govindacharya. So I would only state facts. Rama promises to kill prior to friendship agreement. This is his duty as king to kill an aatataaye without fore thought covertly or overtly as per manusmriti. I deeply regret the word fraud on Rama.

9. SS also quotes Govindacraya to says that if Rama had attacked from front then Vali would have fallen at his feet and asked for mercy.

9. No Rama would not have given mercy as it is crime to pardon an aatatayee Rama quotes this as a mistake done by his forefathers. If Rama pardons then the sin will accrue to Bharatha the ruling king.

10 SS says Sugriva does not own Kishkinda then how it becomes his kingdom. Sugriva does not ask Vali to be killed.

10 These points have been discussed in postingRama the executioner. Sugrive grieves for his past post as prince in Kishkinda may not be as King from which he has been expelled.

11. SS introduces a problem of Rama intending to fight a war as he uses the word arrow(s) Plural in slokas 4-8-22,4-10-32/33

11. This is not correct. Rama only boasts that he has many arrows never the intention to using all of them is expressed. His first sentence is laughing off the task.(4-8-20) and promises to kill him on the same day (4-8-21).

In conclusion the manusmriti rule has been overlooked by SS and by many more eminent people, hence the distorted view. This is because Ram is projected as God which is not correct. He is a man (/King) who follows Dharma implicitly. Valmiki has created this scene to express that terrorist (one who terrorizes people an aatatayee) should be killed immediately without forethought overtly or covertly. The word covert has not been understood and wrongly Rama is said to be hiding. He is actually camouflaged.

Many more postings to follow based on V S Sreenivasa shastri’s Lectures on Ramayana.

आततायी (aatatayee) ……… Terrorist/Despot


Both Atharvana veda and Manausmriti makes it a king’s prime duty to kill aatataaye without forethought overtly or covertly
That is exactly what Rama did and expalined to Vali. Rama on knowing about Vali rushes to Kishkinda to kill him and covertly aims arrow and kills. Rama also quotes Manusmriti sloka Nos.8-343 and 8- 346 Refer Valmiki Ramayana 4-18-31 /32

ओउम | इन्द्र जहि पुमांसं यातुधानमुत स्त्रियं मायया शाशदानाम् |
विग्रीवासो मूरदेवा ऋदन्तु मा ते दृशन्त्सूर्यमुच्चरन्तम् ||Adarvana veda 8/4/24

हे इन्द्र =अन्यायनाशक राजन्
यातुधानम् =आततायी (terrorist/despot)
मायया= चालाकी से (through maya)
शाशदानाम्= पीड़ा पहुँचाने वाले ( causes distress)
मूरदेवाः = हिंसा ही है आराध्य जिनका ऐसे ( to whom causing distress is aim)
पुमांसम्+उत+स्त्रियम् =पुरुष और स्त्री को ( to men and women)
ऋदन्तु= नष्ट हों (create loss)
जहि =मार दे ( Kill)
विग्रीवासः= ग्रीवारहित होकर
ते= वे (they)
मा =मत (Don’t)
उच्चरन्तम् =उदय होते (As sun raises)
सूर्य्यम्= सूर्य को (Sun)
दृशन् =देखें | (see)
Explanation
In this sloka King is ordered to kill terrorists whose only aim is to cause misery to men and women and create loss. This is their duty or daily duty and should precede all other duties.

ओइन्द्रो यातूनामभवत्पराशरो हवर्थीनामभ्याविवासताम्

= राजा लोगों को जीवन सामग्री के नाशक तथा लोगों को बेघर करने वाले यातधानों आततायियों का सर्वथा नाशक होता है | The king has to be the killer of despots and terrorists who cause destruction of house property.

इन्द्र जहि पुमांसं यातुधानमुत स्त्रियं मायया शाशदानाम्

= हे राजन् छल कपट से हिंसा करने वाले आततायी पुरुष और स्त्री को मार दे | The king should kill the men and women who qualify as terrorists (though women are considered to be recipients of protection they lose this privilege on being named as aatatayee –terrorists and are considered as women only until they follow the Dharma)

To Quote from Manusmrirt

गुरुं व बालवृद्धौ वा ब्राह्मणं वा बहुश्रुतम् |
आततायिनमायान्तं हन्यादे वाविचारयन् || 8/350 ||

Be it a teacher (गुरुं), or child(बाल), or an elder (वृद्धौ), or very learned Brahmin (ब्राह्मणं वा बहुश्रुतम्), if they become terrorists (आततायी) by forsaking dharma and killing innocents, kill them without forethought (वाविचारयन् )and think later.

गनाततायिवधे दोषो हन्तुर्भवति कश्चन |
प्रकाशं वाप्रकाशं वा मन्युस्तं मन्य्मृच्छति || 8/351 ||

It is not a sin (दोषो) to kill terrorist (आततायी). Overt (प्रकाशं) and covert (वाप्रकाशं) method to kill him. But it should be remembered that only king is authorized to do this duty. If every individual starts applying this law then it will lead to chaos.
Also Refer Killing Awalaki

Thanks to Shivraj Lakshman for his help in posting this.

BJP……..Muddle


Refer to Opposition in India
The tragedy is being repeated. All along it was Congress that was campaigning against Corruption. But they targeted their partner DMK and their small fry Kalmadi. BJP foolishly joined the fray and criticized the congress as most corrupt. Hazare was congress Stage managed show! They foolishly joined up with him and are now completely trapped. Because action is going to be taken against Reddy brothers. The congress supported the Reddy brothers to break out of Yedyurappa govt. BJP high command played the wrong cards and patched it up.
Now when the public wants more and more blood Reddy brothers are going to be targeted. And see what is happening in BJP. Sushma and Jaitley are blaming each other and ex BJP president Rajnath is taking the blame.
Congress is just silent. For all you know they will not take action against Reddy and let the govt. survive. At the opportune moment before the next Parliamentary election they will smoke out BJP just as they did to DMK and wiped them out. Even now Congress is silent and is taking action against congress members-Kripashankar Singh. Even Hazare’s support of Modi (Gujarat CM) and opposing him now is just a façade to confuse BJP.
Oh God save India from opposition

Logic and beyond ………. by MGH


This is an adjunct to Logic and Beyond…..By MKS

Logic has limitations. Yes, but not in the process but in the input data. Human beings have limited tools for data input. Through these limitations to understand the space and time (and what not) is difficult. Buddha says understanding God (the creator of space) through our limited indriyas ( sensory perceptions) is like understanding of pink colour by blind man. Immanuel Kant complicates this by showing our perception of space and time is not through data input but what he calls as apriori. This can be understood as built in software at birth. Stefan Hawking in the process of arriving at singular formula for light gravity magnetism etc concludes there are many more spaces (13) out of which we are conscious of only space and time. Hence the problem with Logic is with data input. Also our brain cannot handle null points and tend to come to near best conclusion and close the gap in understanding. See God is null. As we move away from god made man, god made earth, type beliefs(Blind no data) science could not answer all queries, so religion sticks on. But religion is based on Shruthee (heard by saints whether it is Christianlty-Bible- or Hinduism-vedas supplemented by epics such as Ramayana) and Smruthi (as understood -which changes with time as our perceptions improve). Added to this many scriptures have been tampered with. The onslaught of Buddhism was stopped by highlighting Upanishads by Shankara and the onslaught Christianity by emphasizing Faith. Vedas or Ramayana never talks about faith. Even in Gita 2 chapters were added which sticks out like sore thumb to explain faith in god. Through all these we have to search for God. PURSUE WE MUST BUT WE SHOULD BE AWARE OF LIMITATION. Should not offend others beliefs as our own are limited.

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